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Whitetail Deer Habitat Managing habitat for the benefit of deer.

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  #136  
Old 04-12-2010, 10:54 PM
corygnc corygnc is offline
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I did about 6 acres (4 diff. plots) of dbltree's rye, clover, awp, etc. plots and if you haven't done it you must. Was fortunate to kill a 184 5/8's inch buck in iowa going to a rye plot and i feel it is a key difference compared to all my neighbors. Thanks as always Dbltree for your advice!
  #137  
Old 04-19-2010, 02:20 PM
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Thanks as always Dbltree for your advice!
Thanks Corey!

Winter rye really takes off early in the spring!

This is October planted WR on April 17th

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

This field has winter rye planted on left and right and winter tritical in the center. Saturday morning my son and I were hunting turkeys and watched a couple dozen deer feeding all over the field with no apparant preference for either WR or WT.

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

There is Falcata alfalfa and red clover planted around the edge of the WR/WT plot but deer fed in all of it and that is a very clear testament to the palatability of winter rye.

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

This pic just shows the various strips of alfalfa, clover, winter rye, tilled brassica plots now in annual clover all of which eventually get rotated.

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

I would add also that deer have been grazing ALL of these food sources and not seeking out any one type of clover, alfalfa, rye triticale or anything else even though they could easily do so.

Some of those will soon be in sugar beets, long season brassicas, milo and soybeans...not that everyone need plant all of those things but strips of crops ensure we have year around food sources that hold whitetails and a means of easily rotating crops and still plant all types and combinations.....
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  #138  
Old 04-20-2010, 10:07 PM
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Default Alleopathic property question

Double tree

Need some advice. I have a 2 acre field planted last fall at @ 120# per acre mixed equally(one third) of oats wheat and rye mix. Wheat and rye are starting to grow this spring and are around 2-4" high. My plan was to plow down and plant an alfalfa oat spring planting. My concern after reading your post is of the alleopathic effect that the rye may have on the Alfalfa germination. Would it be safe to plant or too risky?? Wasnt aware or the ryes alleopathic properties when I planted the mix last fall. I thought the alleopathic properties where more of a factor if you let it mature and then plowed down but it appears these properties may be stronger when rye plants are tillering????? At this time the rye should represent @ 40# per acre rye population.

If I plowed it down now and left it fallow for 30 days would that help me any?? If too risky I, my alternate plan is too plant buckwheat may20th and plow down and fall seed the alfalfa. location is NE Michigan. What do ya think????

Ps. your posts are great, and very informative!

,Thanks
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  #139  
Old 04-22-2010, 01:13 AM
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I have never had a problem with either clover or alfalfa seeds germinating in tilled rye but to be safe I would kill it soon before it does get to mature.

Just disc it under (or whatever tillage mean you have) and if possible wait a week before re-tilling and seeding.

Brassicas seem to have a stonger allelopathic affect on clover/alfalfa seeds then does rye so I really doubt you will have a problem.

Fall seeding clovers and alfalfas work so much better that I hardly ever spring seed anymore, so following the rye with buckwheat and sowing later is really an even better option.

Alfalfa needs a bare minimum of 6 weeks before frosts in the fall so I shoot for mid to late August in my area to make sure it has established a root system and reserves before winter.

In areas were hard frosts can come in mid September then mid to late July is better to summer seed alfalfa. Summer/fall seedings skip all the weed problems that come with spring seedings so consider that when you decide what might work best for you....
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  #140  
Old 04-22-2010, 10:21 PM
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Dbltree

Thanks for the advice. keep up the great work , you are a wealth of knowledge to many here!
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  #141  
Old 04-30-2010, 09:00 AM
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Dbltree

Thanks for the advice. keep up the great work , you are a wealth of knowledge to many here!
Thanks friend!

I have went thru 5 cameras in 3 years and I can see a 6th will soon be required... but here's a shot of winter rye on 4-29

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

Now if you planted red clover (or white) last fall with your winter rye planting the clovers should be coming on strong at a time when the rye has out lived it's usefullness.

Alta Swede Mamouth Red Clover

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

Alice White Clover

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

Now is the time to go ahead and clip the winter rye off leaving the lush clovers behind to both feed deer and fix nitrogen thru the summer until they may either be tilled under for a heavy nitrogen user like brassicas or perhaps left in clover for several years.

If you planted rye alone then now is the time to till it under and plant a nitogen fixing legume such as annual clovers or perhaps chickling vetch.
This rye was planted in October to late to add clovers but this gives you an idea of the height

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

It tills under easily at this point and one pass is all that is needed to effectively kill the rye and prepare for the next planting but discing a couple times will also do the trick

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

Notice how clean the rye is with nary a weed to be found and unlike winter wheat, rye does not tiller as bad leaving plenty of space for clovers or peas to grow.

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

I already have annual clovers like berseem and crimson planted in my spent brassica plots so I planted chickling vetch in the tilled rye plots.

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

I added pea and vetch inoculant (be careful to store in a cooler while working in the field)
Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

Easier to mix in a bucket but I often do it in the planting bag adding just a drop of water to moisten the seed

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

A view of the strip plots this time of year...the rye turned under planted to vetch will be again turned under in July for brassicas but in the meantime the chickling vetch will have fixed upwards of 200#'s of nitrogen to lower my urea bill

Cereal Rye, Winter Rye, Fall Rye Grain - Whitetail Deer Habitat

The annual clovers planted in the spent brassica plots will be tilled under this fall for another crop of winter rye, peas, forage radish and red clover...so the cycle of rotating crops continues. Doing so keeps my soils and crops healthy, lowers my fertilizer and herbicide needs and feed whitetails year around....can't beat that with a stick!

Welter seed has a complete line of all the seeds involved in thiese plantings but always check your local Co-Op as well.
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  #142  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:40 PM
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I'm am using simazine as a residual herbicide in a corn plot. I would like to broadcast rye or rye and clover into the corn around Sept 1. Does simazine effect rye? How long does the residual effect last? I sprayed yesterday. thanks!
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  #143  
Old 05-03-2010, 05:11 PM
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I'm am using simazine as a residual herbicide in a corn plot. I would like to broadcast rye or rye and clover into the corn around Sept 1. Does simazine effect rye? How long does the residual effect last? I sprayed yesterday. thanks!
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Yes simazine would affect winter rye but depending on rates applied and soil type it may not be a problem by September....
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  #144  
Old 05-04-2010, 06:58 AM
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Slammer buckwheat will die out once it flowers anyway which is very short growing season, i think winter rye in that plot will be deadly cause you have corn and beans all around you. Turnips could be a hot item for you also, just give them something different and then i will come up there and give them something different by putting an arrow in em.

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  #145  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:23 AM
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Slammer,

It is too early for BW. The lightest frost will wipe it out. I always wait until Labor Day or later.
  #146  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:07 PM
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Buckwheat is a warm weather crop so always wait til ALL danger of frost is past before planting. It's a great summer green manure crop to suffucate weeds and then to till under for the next crop but it's really not a great choice for fall.

As mentioned the first frost will kill it dead as a door nail so fall cereals are better choices at that time.

Goodluck with yours, hopefully we won't get any more killing frosts!
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  #147  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:32 PM
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Is Buckwheat a good crop for a first planting of a food plot during the spring/summer and then till it under to plant WR for the fall. By the way these are going to be newly established food plots. I will be spraying them to kill the weeds on Friday.
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  #148  
Old 05-04-2010, 11:08 PM
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Is Buckwheat a good crop for a first planting of a food plot during the spring/summer and then till it under to plant WR for the fall. By the way these are going to be newly established food plots. I will be spraying them to kill the weeds on Friday.
Absolutely! Buckwheat is probably the ultimate "first time" crop and you can usually plant two crops in a summer.

After that legumes are a better choice and if you add red clover with your fall winter rye planting, that will already be done.

In the spring the red clover will take off and you can allow it to grow thru the summer and till it under for you next crop.

Annual clovers and chickling vetch are other great options but buckwheat is hard to beat the first time around...that stuff is like rye, it will grow on a brick...

More detailed information here: Growing Cereal Grains and Cover Crops
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  #149  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:26 AM
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dbltree,
What is the advantage of using red over white clover as a plowdown crop?
  #150  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:52 AM
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dbltree,
What is the advantage of using red over white clover as a plowdown crop?
Good question because sometimes there is no real advantage other then price of seed and red clover can yield more biomass to till under.

Alta-Swede Mammouth red clover has a couple advantages...first off it's dirt cheap at $1.52 a pound at Welters and 12#'s per acre is just under $20 an acre.

A high quality white clover like Alice however is only $27 an acre if sown at 6#'s per acre so roughly 10 bucks an acre difference.

Alice has the potential to fix more N per acre then Alta Swede but less biomass to till under so it is somewhat of a toss up.

I like the AS red clover because it is a one cut clover...meaning that it doesn't get ripe and go to seed early like most red clovers making it perfect for food plotters using it to feed deer and then til it under for the next crop.

Alice on the other hand also requires little clipping and deer hammer it equally well.

I sow Alice white clover with my winter rye planting in strips I wish to leave in clover for several years and alta swede red clover in the strips I plow down but honestly there is little difference.

The important thing is SOW CLOVER with your fall winter rye planting...which one, is not that important but not doing so will leave you wondering what to do the next spring and your deer going somehwere else to feed....

Welters Clover seed list
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